adding vanilla stabilizer to B&B

[amieelynne]

I read about this over on the soap board, and asked there but probably get a better answer over here...for those that add the brown nuetralizer or vanilla stabilizer to your products with vanilla Fo...the directions say to add an equal amount of of FO and additive---does that mean you use less amount of FO to compensate or do you end up adding the normal amount of FO and therefore doubling the amount of liquid that you are adding. how does this affect bases if you use them, wouldn't it thin it out or cause an uneven balance with the preservatives--making it more prone to beasties?

[sockmonkey]

I can't believe you're asking this question. I was just wondering about this myself.

I saw one post that said to use 1/2 oz of stabilizer and 1/2 oz of FO. I am assuming you need to use equal parts. By the way, you use one for lotion and one for soaps. Do you know which is which?

Another thing I wonder--is adding white dye not effective against vanilla?

[amieelynne]

I believe the stabilizer is for MP soap only and the nutralizer is for B&B, I don't know if you can use either one in CP soap because of the lye reaction...

I question because I have some lotion base that I add 1% of FO, if I also add 1% of nutralizer I worry that it will become thin and runny, or if I cut the FO in 1/2 I will weaken the scent too much. I haven't had anything turn yet, but it's only been a short time and I do like some of the FO's with vanilla in them

[bugtussle]

WSP's directions say to mix the FO and Vanilla Stabilizer and then to add the mix as though it were FO only. In other words, you are using only 1/2 the FO you normally would. I think the stabilizer enhances the FO because it does have a nice scent in CP soap.

[amieelynne]

so you can use it in soaps too? I was thinking about trying out CPHP and if I buy some of this anyway, might as well add it to the soap too if it won't harm. I was just worried that by adding 1/2 of the normal FO you would end up with a weaker scent

[Michi]

I just bought some (for M&P soaps) but haven't used it as of yet, so can't really help ya.

I had heard though from someone here that you can't use it in CP soaps. ???

And yep, gotta use two different products for soaps and lotions etc. I swear they (suppliers and manufacturers) get cha coming and going.

[sockmonkey]

Ok, I just got off the phone with WSP and they told me that you use equal parts of stabilizer & FO and that you don't need to reduce the amount of FO you use. So, if you normally use 3% FO, then add 3% stabilizer. They claimed that it will not be too much liquid.

I sure hate to botch up a batch of soap and waste FO's if it turns out not to be correct!

[amieelynne]

hmm....it's not just botching up a batch of soap but for those that use bases (like I do for the lotion) it might create havoc with the preservative and we won't know it till little blue fuzzies appear :eeek: NO? I rememebr reading that you can only add so much to a base %wise, and beyond that it threw off the balance of the base and the pre added preservatives etc.

[gerrie]

I've used both the stabilizer and the neutralizer from WSP and they work great for me. The neutralizer has a VERY strong odor to it, but it goes away after you get it in your lotion. I hate to use it more than I need to, but I had some of the ugliest Vanilla Lace lotion till I got the neutralizer. I've tested it with a bottle for over a year on the shelf and it's still a nice bright yellow.

The stabilizer for MP doesn't have that smell. Since I've started using it I don't have any nasty looking soaps.

[sockmonkey]

I could be wrong, but I don't know why adding stabilizer would be any more likely to cause anything funky to grow in lotions than adding fragrance oils would.

The stabilzer was specifically created to be used in your b&b products--the various vegetable oils and powders people sometimes add to their pre-made bases are natural products and therefore subject to deteriorate over time, which can lead to the funkiness you're worried about.

[gerrie]

Make sure you're using the right product in the lotions and MP. The stabilizer is only for MP soaps. The neutralizer is for lotions.

[amieelynne]

maybe I am wrong and misunderstanding--I am new to B&B but my understanding was you could only add so much, usually only 1-3% of ANYTHING to a base before it may cause some beasties. the bases are formulated from the manuf. with a certain % of preserve for a certain % of product. you have that 1-3% to add things, most commonly FO, but when you go over the balance is off. I guess the option is there to add more preservative yourself. at least, this is what I have gleaned from reading up on bases and B&B, no?

gerrie, did you add the full amount of FO and then double that with the nutralizer--or did you keep the same amount of additives, by cutting your normal amount of FO added in half?

sorry to ask so many questions about this, I haven't had any lotion turn color yet but would like to avoid it rather than deal with the problem when it comes up

[gerrie]

Yes, I used the full amount of FO and then added the same amount of neutralizer to that. You should contact who ever it was you bought your base from and ask them about adding the additional additives. They'll know best what % you can use.

I will say, I had one FO that for some reason made the lotion runny when I added the neutralizer to it, and that was Almond Pastries from Peaks. I've never had the lotion thin, but it did with that oil so I'm just assuming it is something in that particular oil.

[sockmonkey]

maybe I am wrong and misunderstanding--I am new to B&B but my understanding was you could only add so much, usually only 1-3% of ANYTHING to a base before it may cause some beasties. the bases are formulated from the manuf. with a certain % of preserve for a certain % of product. you have that 1-3% to add things, most commonly FO, but when you go over the balance is off. I guess the option is there to add more preservative yourself. at least, this is what I have gleaned from reading up on bases and B&B, no?

The amount of fragrance you can add will vary from supplier to supplier. Some places say you can add up to 9% FO in products, which I take to mean their products are weaker than the ones that suggest using up to 3%. Most of the fragrance oils you add are some form of alcohol, which do not cause bacterial growth. I do not believe places like WSP say to limit FO to 3% because more than that will cause nasty things to grow, but rather because stronger usage may cause skin irritation, or maybe degrade the quality of the product (such as making it too runny).

A word of caution--I wouldn't start adding extra preservative willy-nilly style to any pre-base that already has it in there since you don't know how much is in there, you could wind up doing more harm than good by adding extra. Too much of anything can be an irritant.

No offense to anyone here, but you just can't believe everything that you read here (or anywhere for that matter). There are many knowledgable people here who have spent years working with b&b and know what they're talking about. There are also people who dabble in it and think they're experts and give out erroneous information--not too often, but it happens. If you have any doubts, the wisest thing to do is to call the manufacturer directly for advice.