Just need to clear my head - Long Rant!!

[NattyCat]

Am I alone in thinking that Ebay has ruined my whole way of working???

I have been an Ebay member for approaching 8 years now, and I used to sell very regularly - in fact I had a shop and made sales everyday. Because of the whole "Feedback" issue, I would constantly panic to get the sold items out of the door within a couple of days of purchase, making sure everything was wrapped to the best of my ability and with the customer super fast.

I did this because I knew that customers can be fickle - and if there was any sort of delay, or a gap in the packaging, then they would not hesitate to give me a negative feedback and for some reason, the thought of not having 100% positive feedback was just too awful to contemplate.

So anyway, I started my candle business almost a year and a half ago now. I stopped selling so much on ebay, closed my shop and now get on with my life as a candle maker. But the whole "negative feedback avoidance" mentality has never left me. Whilst I realise that in order to be successful, I need to do everything in my power to ensure that the customer gets great customer service and fabulous products, I have found myself bending over backwards to fulfill orders that are outside of my normal range.

For example, if someone orders a set of candles in Pine fragrance (not the most popular scent so I don't keep a whole lot in stock), and I don't have enough oil left, instead of saying "i'm sorry, that fragrance is sold out right now, would you like an alternative scent or would you mind waiting for 2 weeks so we can order new oil for you" I go and buy a whole pound of the oil, and have it shipped express from the USA to the UK, just to make the customer a set of 6 tealights - which leaves 99% of the money I spent fulfilling that order sat on a shelf in the form of a 16oz bottle of oil with only a tiny bit taken out.

OK, this seems reasonable - but it happens allllll the time. The money I spend on trying to fulfill an order is often more than twice the amount that the actual order is worth. And all because I have a strange "fear" of what the customer would say or do if I didn't have exactly what they wanted straight away.

Same goes for candle tins. I recently ran out of 8oz tins. Someone ordered ONE candle tin - so I went and bought 100 tins and had them shipped to the UK priority. Yes, I did NEED the tins, but I just didn't have the kind of cash I spent on them available at the time, so because I ordered them when I couldn't really afford them, I caused myself some problems financially. Why oh why do I feel incapable of saying "I'm sorry, we're all out of 8oz tins at the moment, would you like a different size or would you mind waiting until the new tins are in stock in about 3 weeks time?"

Just recently, I poured 36 tealights - each one a different colour and different fragrance because a customer asked me to. It took me hours to do and it's not something I offer on my website but while they were on the phone, this is what they asked for and I didn't have the balls to say "sorry, you need to buy 6 tealights in each fragrance" as I was terrified of upsetting them or being seen as inflexible and unprofessional! I made about $5 dollars on this order and quite simply, that sucks.

My husband often says to me, "You are NOT Amazon" He says "you don't have a massive warehouse sat out back holding vast quantities of every kind of item you sell, and you certainly don't have the buying power of Amazon to allow your money to be sat around on shelves as stock" He says this because he sees me buying stock allllllll the time to fulfill low value orders, and he is quite rightly concerned. My running costs are MINUS every month, I spent £25,000 UK pounds last year ($50,000 US Dollars) on buying, buying, buying, buying and buying stock that is just sitting here taking up every spare inch of space.

Oh..and guess what I didn't spend ANY of that money on? advertising, marketing, professional labelling, glossy hand-outs and brochures - which happen to be the most important part of any business!

I recently poured all my concerns out to my hubby as I'm getting so worried that my business will fail if I continue to maintain this "fulfill the order no matter WHAT it costs" mentality. He said to me, "what do you think they'll do if you don't have the product they want in stock? Will they start a hate campaign against you? Give you negative feedback (how???) Ring the national newspapers and tell them of the trauma you caused them because you didn't have a pineapple bath bomb?"

Yes, this made me laugh too! He pointed out that on my website, it clearly states that we are a small family business and that all our products are created from scratch. People wanting mass-produced crap wouldn't be shopping on my website in the first place, so are very likely to understand if a product wasn't in stock and if they wanted it bad enough - they'd be happy to wait!

And what if they didn't understand and was angry that you didn't have that pineapple bath bomb? So what!! As long as I deal with them professionaly, courteously and to the best of my ability I should be satisfied that I did all I could, and the person can just go elsewhere and buy their pineapple bath bomb - I don't need to stress myself out to the max over it!!!

When I first started selling my candles to the public, the only experience I'd had doing so was from selling stuff on Ebay. And my experience and sheer, unadulterated fear of being given negative feedback on ebay, has shaped the person I have become when selling via my own website. I can now see that this is wrong!

Here's my new rules. My business will be following these closely from now on. I hope they have a positive effect and my time, money, life and business become happier and nicer places to be!

I DON'T need to spend vast oceans of cash out to fulfill orders if I don't have the product in stock at the time.

I DON'T need to break my back fulfilling orders that are out of the ordinary.

I CAN increase my prices and receive a fair price for the time and effort I put into each and every product I sell.

I DON'T need to compete with amateurs selling their home-made shit on Ebay. I sell fabulous products, that are beautifully made and premium quality, and people who want this type of product are happy to pay for it, and if they want a bargain bucket piece of crap - let them go to Ebay!

I DO need to maintain my already high level of customer service, but I need to chill out and realise that you just can't please all the people all the time!!

And above all else, I need to bring back the enjoyment that my works brings me, and not let worry, stress and fear overtake the fun, pride and and sense of achievement that my creativy gives me.

If anyone else sees themselves going down this path or recognises themselves in anything I've said then perhaps this is just food for thought for you. But for me, it has just allowed to me to clear my head of all these thoughts and start from fresh.

Natasha

[cybersix]

Natasha, I can find myself in your words.

I try to please everyone, and sometimes I lose money.

The last big order I'm working on for example, 80 pillars for a wedding, ok, I told the customers wrapping and packaging was another cost apart to evaluate. Then they asked twice if I could package without adding any cost.. and in the end I said "yes".

But it's not right, packaging has its costs and takes a lot of time.

Same for tarts, I always forget to state "6 minimums"!

And I can't stock up because I don't have much money and much space to store what I do. I always run after orders.

But we have to plan and then stick to the plan.

On the site you could clearly write that if an item is out of stock customers will be asked what they want to do. You could say thew will be notified is something is out of stock or you could try to update items on the site.

I had to say no to a big hotel request, the wanted 500 tapers.. but I don't do tapers. I explained them what I do, and they were happy because they got a nice answer even if negative.

And I'm still alive!!

So take a deep breath, empty your head, start once again and you'll do wonders!!

[tangerine]

Yes, you should really stick to your new rules. Otherwise, it takes the fun out of work (candlemaking).

And I want a pineapple bath bomb.

[heirloomoriginals]

If you are killing yourself trying to fill special orders, you will wind up regretting your business and not want to do it anymore.

I agree, stick with your 6 minimum or whatever your minimum is. Since you live in UK, shipping is probably a nightmare. Ask them if they can wait or if they want an alternative. You aren't a huge company, just a single person making candles.

HUGS and I hope things get better for you.

Steph

[NattyCat]

Yes, you should really stick to your new rules. Otherwise, it takes the fun out of work (candlemaking).

And I want a pineapple bath bomb.

no. go away. :p

[Ramaroa]

Kia kaha, Natty! Kia kaha - Maori for 'stand strong'. I feel your pain. It's only human to want to please everybody, but you know yourself that you can't please all of the people all of the time. You have to take a step back for a minute, your business is not 'you'. You run it, it doesn't run you. Now you've taken that step back, think of your business in the third person, it has a life of its own, it has it's own money (or lack of) and has to be responsible for every action it takes as 'a person' in it's own right. Now this 'business/ person' is your friend and you can't spend any money that this person doesn't have. Okay! Everytime you spend that money, think about whether the business can afford it and will you make money from it - if it can't then you do not do it.

This person has to get into the habit that it does nothing for free, maybe it's not in your nature, but this person is a really mean and ruthless mother who does absolutely nothing without considering the possibility that it can make money from any single action. Everytime you make a financial decision it has to be in your favour and has to be profitable, you can't possibly carry on pouring money away like that. If you are not able to sell your candles to cover the costs than you really don't stand a chance. It's fine to invest in stock that you will sell at a later date, but to go out of your way and buy things you know you will not use or sell in the future is a recipe for disaster.

Stop being so bloomin nice and if you can't do something and turn a profit from it, apologise nicely and walk away :tiptoe: , it really doesn't hurt and you can focus on the things you can do and do them well.

You know you're halfway there already in recognising the problem, you already know you have to change somethings, so acceptance will be the next phase and I'm sure you will continue to grow and prosper.

[gaynor72]

Hi NattyCat

I totally agree with you, I don't know how some ebayers make a profit, that is either selling candle supplies or candles, but I guess it all comes down to quality and I have seen you're website and I can say it shouts quality! and being a buyer and seller all I want is the best quality, the best burning candles! I would rather pay more and get better quality.

I hate the ebay feedback system, I had some buyer put down (in the feedback score .... silly star sytem) disptatch time was a little slow!!! I post that day or the next!! really gets to me I go out of my way, not that I've had a neg but those damn stars ...... I hate them!!!

On a final note....... I thought I had addictions ...... but not a fraction as you have :lipsrseal

Gaynor

[elly]

Maybe you can put a small note on your website for items that you are running low on. Something like "limited quantities available", whether it be for a specific fragrance, container, or what have you. If the customer is notified up-front, they shouldn't be upset if you come back to them saying you can't produce the quantity they wanted. You can always offer a substitution for the item, or tell them you can have the remaining quantities available in ___ weeks (hopefully that will save you some of the ridiculous shipping costs for express delivery to the UK).

[tangerine]

no. go away. :p

:laugh2:

[thesoapbox]

Currently I have 8 EO blends on hand for my soaps. I found myself putting extra scents on my scent list that I "wanted" but didn't actually "have"! I was also putting products up that I "wanted" but didn't actually "have" thinking that if someone ordered it, it would be no big deal to order it and make it up quick, not at all thinking, hey what if I don't have the money at that time to get the supplies for the order! I finally decided, no way am I doing this and I took everything down that I did not ACTUALLY have on hand! I figured I could just add them as I actually ordered and had them!

It is a good thing to stick to what you are going to do ! Don't make yourself crazy (and broke) trying to please everyone!

The best thing about the website that I have is if I am running low I can actually keep an inventory control and put in exactly how many of that certain item I have on hand so the customers that are shopping can see, ok, she only has 4 bars of that type of soap left!

If your site has something similar, USE IT!! It will help you with trying to fulfill orders that you just don't have all the supplies for.

And don't be afraid to say, you know, I just don't have enough of those supplies to fill that order, would you like to try something different or wait x amount of time to get it?

It never hurt !

HTH

ANGi

[cindym]

Hey Natty, chill woman. LOL I use to be the same way. I recently had a large wholesale order which included 16 oz apoths, Pillars and votives. I was not able to make the rose and lilac votives she needed, so what I did was make her pink sugar and lavender so she would have the colors, I delivered the order and told her, she was fine with it. I also told her that if they didn't sell I would take them back and switch them out for fall scents.

Stick to your guns. Customers will have you jumping through hoops of fire if you let them. It's those individual custormers that will kill you. Offer another scent, either close to what is ordered, might be time for that customer to add a little spice to their life. LOL. Really, hang in. We all learn this lesson the hard way LOL. Sounds to me like you do the best you can, that is what makes a business successful.

[Scented]

Hey Nat,

I think a lot of us can find ourselves in your shoes or in those words. At some point you just can't please everyone and I think if you have to special order for them, perhaps they can place a larger order to make it more worth your while.

We spent a year chasing down every request and scrambling to get it tested and out for sale. It wasn't worth it. Ten people asked for licorice, 15 for spiced pear and eight for marshmellow, five for grape etc. and when we tell them we will hunt for the FO and test it, give us x-amount of time, this is where we'll be ... they don't show. If we tell them to contact us in a day and we'll have an answer for them they don't contact us. If we see them, it's oh yeah, I forgot, no thanks. So instead of pleasing the customer, go with what works for you and your guidelines appear to be a good start. Stick to them! They look like a winning stategy.

[ubure]

Hi Nat,

it's exactly the same with me. I finally ended my retail business because I just couldn't handle the sometimes very difficult customers who want all without wanting to pay for it. I always used to give them all they wanted, only to be in trouble. One customer e.g. ordered candles for her wedding and a lot of YC (I sold them at this time). She got her wedding candles, the rest was to be delivered in autumn. But I had a sale for the YC so most of the things she wanted (and she did get a extremely good price for the wedding - YC-package) were old out at the time she wanted them. I told her more than once, sent her the rest, sent her the invoice after a whole year (my fault, I know, but she should be glad about this), she didn't pay, I remeinded her, got no response, I called her, emailed her, phoned again and now she finally paid the invoice. Do you know what she worte on the bank transfer sheet? "2 times and never again!" Can you believe this??

So this is what you get for working all night, giving them special prices etc. etc. It's not worth it. Stick to your rules (which are mine as well).

Oh, BTW: Don't you think it isn't time to get associated here in Europe to get our supplies at more reasonable prices? Why don't we finally do order co-ops? I know you get quality oils from the UK, I get palm fat and crystallizing palm wax at a very good price (we talked about that before), and we could order from Libbey at a better price as well (your Anchor prices are quite high imo - there has to be another possibility). I don't want to make any profit from the wax, I only want a better price from my supplier, and I only get a better price if I order enough. And I don't mean only you and me, but all the other European candle makers. Maybe we should talk it all over?

[NattyCat]

Hi Nat,

it's exactly the same with me. I finally ended my retail business because I just couldn't handle the sometimes very difficult customers who want all without wanting to pay for it. I always used to give them all they wanted, only to be in trouble. One customer e.g. ordered candles for her wedding and a lot of YC (I sold them at this time). She got her wedding candles, the rest was to be delivered in autumn. But I had a sale for the YC so most of the things she wanted (and she did get a extremely good price for the wedding - YC-package) were old out at the time she wanted them. I told her more than once, sent her the rest, sent her the invoice after a whole year (my fault, I know, but she should be glad about this), she didn't pay, I remeinded her, got no response, I called her, emailed her, phoned again and now she finally paid the invoice. Do you know what she worte on the bank transfer sheet? "2 times and never again!" Can you believe this??

So this is what you get for working all night, giving them special prices etc. etc. It's not worth it. Stick to your rules (which are mine as well).

Oh, BTW: Don't you think it isn't time to get associated here in Europe to get our supplies at more reasonable prices? Why don't we finally do order co-ops? I know you get quality oils from the UK, I get palm fat and crystallizing palm wax at a very good price (we talked about that before), and we could order from Libbey at a better price as well (your Anchor prices are quite high imo - there has to be another possibility). I don't want to make any profit from the wax, I only want a better price from my supplier, and I only get a better price if I order enough. And I don't mean only you and me, but all the other European candle makers. Maybe we should talk it all over?

it would be good to get a sample of the wax - perhaps a kilo I can test with. I'm reluctant to change my wax as I have tested over 300 fragrances in my current blend, and I'd have to start allllll over again at great time and expense. BUT, i will not say "no" as if the wax is so much cheaper, maybe the effort will be worth it in the long run.

Nat

[ubure]

I know, I had the same problem (which proved not to be a problem at all, because all my pos work in this wax, most of them even much better than in my soy blend).

PM'd you!!

[girlyracer]

Hi Natty

Just picked up on this thread. You've been given some good advice by lots of people. I hear where you're coming from. In my last business I used to worry at first about items being out of stock. I thought customers would cancel their order if they had missing items but nobody ever did. If you back order their items they are more than happy to receive them at a later date.

People wouldn't dream of asking Tescos to especially get them to order something obscure like I dunno chilled monkey brains (sorry, watched Indy Jones the other day). Even if they did they wouldn't do it if they couldn't make a profit out of it.

The only way a business is going to get bad "feedback" is if they sell shoddy goods with bad customer service. You sell good quality goods with an exemplary customer service. I think your new rules are a very good idea and you should stick with them. If anything I think it'll strengthen your credibility as an astute business woman.

Ruby