Question about Super Fat/Lye Concentration

[8-GRAN-ONES]

I have so far just went with what is standard set on Soap Calc.

On the soaps I have made so far...

I was wondering if some here could explain or help?

At the top Right side where it says ...

Water as % of Oils..

Super Fat/Discount%

Lye concentration

Water..Lye Ratio..

If I wanted to water discount..where would I do that?

Or if I did a super fat..do I do anything to the lye concentration?

and if you do a water discount do you have to be careful about the lye being to heavy?

Hope these are not to crazy of questions..but I just don't know for sure...

[topofmurrayhill]

If you want to try discounting the water, you can change the 38% to something lower. Maybe try 35% or 33%.

The only thing that will change is the amount of water calculated for your recipe. The lye and oil amounts stay the same because those need to combine in the right amounts to make the soap properly. Your batch will just be less wet and not need as much drying time. It might also trace a little faster.

When you change the superfat amount it changes the amount of lye calculated for your recipe. As you increase the superfat percentage, it discounts the lye to leave more oil in your soap. For example, at 0% it uses the full SAP value of the oils, but at 10% superfat/lye discount it figures out the lye based on only 90% of the SAP value.

That's all you need to know to discount water or lye in SoapCalc. Just change those two numbers and use the amount of water and NaOH it says to. Since the amounts of water and NaOH are changeable, the strength of the lye solution can vary.

The checkboxes are optional. They're for people who want to use a lye solution of a specific strength. Checking one of them makes SoapCalc figure out the water relative to the lye instead of the oils. Increasing the concentration means less water and decreasing the concentration means more water. It's just a different way of doing things.

[CareBear]

Water discount: In soapcalc.com to do that you will check the box marked lye concentration and then you can enter the % you want. All it does is vary the amount of water in your recipe - the lye calculation is based on the oils & the superfat.

Superfat has nothing to do with oils - it's based on how much excess oils you will have after the lye is all used up.

[Tereasa]

All water discount does is change the amount of water in your recipe. You can change the percentage in soap calc.

I don't get how you say superfatting has nothing to do with oils, when the last half of your sentence says that it relates to the oils left.

BTW: I just made my first batch of soap, but I can repeat the first post as well.

[CareBear]

Thanks for mentioning that T - that was a typo and when I discovered it I couldn't edit... that is what I get for being online too late at night. Superfatting has nothing to do with WATER!

[Vio]

I'm learning both soapmaker and soapcalc as a total n00b and I found E's mention of fixed lye and the use of it too, to be great with my first two batches. They unmold very fast and didn't trace too fast either. The first batch was her shoebox soap tutorial recipe and I set fixed lye to 33% in soap calc and ticked it, and stayed with the 5% superfat and everything went great. With the OO soap I did a bigger concentration and again, it was a great experience. I'm a firm believer now in using fixed lye in calcs. Having only done it that way myself so far, it's been two great experiences.

Soapmaker is a bit tricky with setting the lye fixed when you're new but I just learned how to do it thanks to the help of Louise and Eugenia. A few default numbers have to be changed to do what soapcalc can do in one step since the default superfat is 5%.

Playing with the calcs is a lot of fun.

[Louise]

I didn't do anything, lol.

[Vio]

Yes you did!!! You did it all!!! It's all your fault!!!

[Louise]

I'm innocent I tell ya!!! INNOCENT!!!

[eugenia]

I'm innocent I tell ya!!! INNOCENT!!!

Definitely guilty here. :rolleyes2

[8-GRAN-ONES]

What advantages is there to superfatting?

[Louise]

And you look guilty too, Eugenia! [ATTACH]14998[/ATTACH]

[Louise]

Gran, superfatting is twofold. First, it ensures that all the lye is used up and second, it makes for a milder bar of soap. 5% superfatting is usually the starting point. If you superfat at 10% or higher, you run the risk of the unsaponafied oils turning rancid.

[8-GRAN-ONES]

so the superfat on soapcalc is at 5% and that is normal?

So if I wanted a milder bar I would go between maybe 6 or 8?

[Louise]

Yes, it will be milder. Facial soaps and baby soaps are usually superfatted between 7% - 9%. HTH

[eugenia]

so the superfat on soapcalc is at 5% and that is normal?

So if I wanted a milder bar I would go between maybe 6 or 8?

Yes, the default on soapcalc is 5%. It varies with the calculator.

I stick with the 5% as it leaves a little margin for error. Meaning, that when you are weighing, if you go a little over on your oils (I'm talking grams, not ounces, LOL) it will increase the superfat automatically as you have a little extra oil.

If you want to increase the number, I'd stick with 6%. The higher the superfat, the more unsaponified oils left in the soap, leading to a softer bar that is more prone to rancidity.

You don't want to go BELOW the 5% as you need a little cushion there to ensure the soap is not harsh.

Hope I've not confused you.

e

[eugenia]

To put it another way, 0% superfat would mean that 100% of the oils saponify with the lye. The measurements have to be perfectly exactly or you run the risk of having too much lye in your soap. If your oil is a gram short, or your lye a gram over, you will have excess lye. There is no margin for error with 0% superfat.

The 5% leaves a little oil in the finished product, for a milder bar.

e

[DaniGirl]

So if I superfat at 6% will it also effect the lather? I'm thinking it would, but want to be sure. I have a recipe I'm enjoying, but would like it to be a smidge milder. I haven't deviated from the default numbers on the calc yet, so not sure what the outcome will be or if I should just go ahead and tweak the recipe instead.

[Louise]

You could superfat at 6% or 7% and it would give you a milder bar without affecting the lather. HTH

[8-GRAN-ONES]

So If I am understanding.. I am better to only change the water % ( would you say no lower than 30%)?? if I want my soap to cure faster???

and only change the Superfat between 6 or 7..if I want a milder soap???

And leave Lye concentration and water lye ratio tabs alone???

[Louise]

Gran, I am not as familiar with SoapCalc as alot of other people here, so hopefully one will come by and advise you which of those fields to change to get the results you would like.

I can't remember if Eugenia mentioned it in one of her posts or not.

[Vio]

So If I am understanding.. I am better to only change the water % ( would you say no lower than 30%)?? if I want my soap to cure faster???

and only change the Superfat between 6 or 7..if I want a milder soap???

And leave Lye concentration and water lye ratio tabs alone???

I learned how to use soapcalc from reading E's shoebox tutorial and now, it's pretty easy to put in numbers for me, so let me see if I can help.

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61968

In that recipe, she instructs you to use a 33% fixed lye solution which you would plug into soap calc by putting in 33% into the field that says "lye concentration, top right. Enter 33% then tick the fixed box.

I figured out my mold by using her method to get amount of oils needed and entered the amount of oils into soapcalc as well. Then entered the %'s and the fo needed which was .75 ox per lb.

So the only thing I touched was the ounces of oils needed and the lye fixed set to my amount I wanted to use which was 33%, then the entries of the %'s for the oils to total 100% and the fo info. Made sure it's set to ounces. I also left the superfat as default and used the 5%.

So, then I weighed out all the ingredients, even the water was weighed, and followed the recipe and it traced nicely. Not fast at all. No stick blender though.

From what I've read, many people do the 33% lye. I've visited a few boards now where they ask you what you've used in lye percentages. This has to be a popular method. I know it worked well for me. My soaps weren't soft. In fact they were rather hard the next day, not even 12 hours after I poured them and ready to cut. They're drying out very fast too. Very hard too.

With both the recipes I've done so far, I've used 5% superfat and only changed fixed lye and haven't had anything trace super fast on me with those two. One of which was the shoebox and the other was castile which was done at a higher fixed lye because of the large amount of oo I used.

I don't know the technical part yet, where you do it in your head with the lye grams as others do, but this way worked for me twice and I am devising recipes using it right now. Playing with the soapcalc.

I'm also playing with soapmaker as well and it's very different, but adjustable to make it work like soapcalc. Another fun toy to play with.

I have no idea how soaps come out if you just use default numbers on soapcalc or soapmaker, but I've never done it. Maybe if one does it, they take much longer to dry?

[topofmurrayhill]

To put it another way, 0% superfat would mean that 100% of the oils saponify with the lye. The measurements have to be perfectly exactly or you run the risk of having too much lye in your soap.

It's not only the measurements that would have to be perfect. Our SAP values would also have to be exactly right, which isn't likely. 0% superfat could be lye heavy if the oils have a lower SAP value than our estimate. The other purpose of the lye discount is to hedge against that.

[Vio]

So Top, the sap values, since they change, the lye needed changes with them? It's a dynamic thing based on the sap values on not just on the amount of oils as a whole? Still waiting on my book. Darned Amazon.

[topofmurrayhill]

Yes, the proportion of lye needed to completely saponify an oil varies with the batch of oil. The typical SAP value of an oil is normally expressed as a range. Using a 5% lye discount makes it essentially certain we won't have lye-heavy soap, but we don't know what the amount of residual oil is. It could be more or less than 5%.