yanavp Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Hello Candlemakers:I am a newbie to making candles and desperately need your help!! I am trying to pour Cargill C-3 Soy Wax into a glass tumbler 2.5" diameter, 3" tall. I am able to get a good pour with minor sinking near the wick - so far so good! My problem - after about 2 or 3 days the wax starts to come away from the glass tumbler. They are stored in a climate control area of 68% so its not a temp issue. I even had one last night that had great adhesion, but after burning for about an hour it pulled away about 80% from the glass. Any tips, ideas, suggestions?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrie Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Those are referred to as "wetspots", and they are just the nature of the beast. Try heating your jars in the oven at 150 degrees for a little bit before you pour. That may help a little. Wetspots aren't a big deal to anybody except us candlemakers. Customers won't even really notice them. Even Yanke* has wetspots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanavp Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 Thank you! I will try to heat the jars and see if it makes any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bev Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Welcome to the world of soy wax. I get wet spots all the time. I once pointed the wet spot out to one of my customers, explaining to her it was characteristic of soy wax, that it didn't diminish the integrity of the candle, etc, etc. To which she replied, "I don't care, I didn't even notice that. I just like the smell of your candles!" I think we who make the candles worry more about it than anyone. So I've learned to, as others say, "embrace the wet spots." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanavp Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 Thanks so much for your help!! I am a bit of a perfectionist so I do get frustrated with this, but I am detemrined to get it right :-)We are trying to do all natural soy candles so we don't know what to do if we are going to stick with C-3 Cargill Soy Wax. Here's the weird thing. I poured some really beautiful tumbler candles last week and let them sit for a few days. They looked great right until we lit them which is when they got their 'wet spots' isn't that strange?? What could be causing this? Is there an all natural additive that we can add to keep the adherance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelaVA Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 I'm not a soy user, but am definitely accustomed to seeing wetspots. But trust me, no one notices them. Ever. Not one of my customers, family or friends has ever noticed them. People don't even look at the candle most of the time. Their first instinct is to smell it, so if it smells good, you're fine. I just don't worry about them anymore. It's not worth the time and effort I was putting into keeping them away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyN Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 If soy has wet spots why don't you use a paraffin container wax? I new and curious. I guess what I'm asking is what are the benefits of soy for containers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatinDucky Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Paraffin has wet spots too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudsnwicks Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 But trust me, no one notices them. Ever. Not one of my customers, family or friends has ever noticed them. People don't even look at the candle most of the time. Their first instinct is to smell it, so if it smells good, you're fine. I just don't worry about them anymore. It's not worth the time and effort I was putting into keeping them away.So true. Could be because commercially made candles (including big name brands like Y**kee) have them too, so people naturally would think, this is how a candle is supposed to look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanavp Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 Since I am a newbie to the candle world, I definitely appreciate your feedback. I wonder though if pricing has something to do with it?? We are planning on launching a high end candle - soy, good f/o, and expensive packaging - all for top dollar. I am not sure those types of consumers will be so forgiving as the 'country candle' type of customer?? What do you think? I know that as a consumer myself, I would want a perfect looking candle if I was paying $25++ for it, or am I off-base? Thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate your help and suggestions!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudsnwicks Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I just remembered, there was another thread here a while back about Peak's container wax which reportedly has no wet spots. Here it is:http://www.candletech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5480&highlight=peaks+container+waxIt isn't a soy wax though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Since I am a newbie to the candle world, I definitely appreciate your feedback. I wonder though if pricing has something to do with it?? We are planning on launching a high end candle - soy, good f/o, and expensive packaging - all for top dollar. I am not sure those types of consumers will be so forgiving as the 'country candle' type of customer?? What do you think? I know that as a consumer myself, I would want a perfect looking candle if I was paying $25++ for it, or am I off-base?Thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate your help and suggestions!!If you feel that wet spots won't fly for an upscale candle, you may have to investigate non-transparent containers. Wax and glass will never be a unit. Wax only adheres to glass to a certain extent and it is only elastic to a certain extent (not very much in the case of soy). Wax and glass expand and contract at different rates and will separate. It may happen in production, it may happen in storage, it may happen with temperature changes during shipping, it may happen when the candle is lit, but it is likely to happen. So this is one issue you will probably have to get more realistic about, as well as the prospect of using essential oils. That probably won't fly for an upscale line either, since using only essential oils generally doesn't result in a high qualilty product. To the extent it could, you are months of research and testing away from it.I understand and appreciate that you have a vision of what you think will be a nice and upscale product, but it will not come as easy as you think. If you thought it would be hard it will probably be harder than that to be satisfied with your product (I did note your claim to perfectionism). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelaVA Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I don't have a country-themed business. My candles are not outrageously expensive, but they aren't cheap either. I make a good quality product and charge accordingly. But I will reiterate what I said earlier - People don't notice wetspots. Honestly, they don't notice them. Go into a high-end candle shop and you will see candles with wetspots. Like Top said, any changes in humidity, weather, etc can cause the spots so even if you manage to keep them away while pouring, the minute someone takes it home or you ship it out, they can occur. I would worry more about scent throw (hot and cold), packaging and marketing, than I would about wetspots. :smiley2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanavp Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 That's great feedback!! We own a few high end spas and I just want to make sure we know what we are getting into from the beginning so I definitely appreciate the pratical experience you are able to offer me. Just don't want to disappoint our customers :-) So what you all are saying is that companies like Erg*, Votiv*, etc all have the same problems? Their candles have wet spots too? If so then I will be much more comfortable with out problems. I totally agree with your statements - I get a great pour with the C-3, but the wet spots can happen at any time for any reason - weird observation, one occasion I held a candle with a wet spot in my hands for about ten minutes without realizing it - and the wet spot disappeared I guess from my body heat. That lead me to try reheating the wet spots on other jars and it seemed to work because the spots went away....but as you already know and I soon found out, they don't go away for long!! I guess once a wet spot appears, that's it for the candle, right?? No way to reheat the outside effectively to remove the spot??Thanks for letting me post my newbie questions here. It's very much appreciated and a great learning resource. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soygirl Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 You could try some different soy waxes, maybe the Universal Additive, but you will probably still get wet spots, randomly. You might want to think about a container that will hide them, like frosted glass, or textured glass. That will also set your candle apart from the average apothecary or canning jar candle, and possibly give it a higher perceived value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Different waxes will certainly vary as far as the severity of it goes. I think one of the members here noted good performance from the newer version of EcoSoya CB-Advanced when it comes to adhesion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrie Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 My candles aren't "country" themed, and I get some wetspots. Wetspots don't care if you are country, classic, contemporary, Yanke*, or a horridly, horrendously overpriced votivo candle. They will come anyway. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Even Rock 'n' Roll candles get wet spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geekrunner Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 First off, I want to say how lucky we are to have topofmurrayhill on this site. I enjoy reading your replies! :smiley2: On wet spots, I have tried very hard to get my candles to not wetspot, and I have it down. THEN I test burn it, and all that work is for naught cause the wet spots return.My proposed solution is to make it so the wet spots covers THE ENTIRE candle, so it does not look like a wet spot! LOL BWAHAAHAA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudsnwicks Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 My proposed solution is to make it so the wet spots covers THE ENTIRE candle, so it does not look like a wet spot! I like the way you're thinking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 First off, I want to say how lucky we are to have topofmurrayhill on this site. I enjoy reading your replies! :smiley2: Finally someone who understands me. People sometimes think I'm joking.My proposed solution is to make it so the wet spots covers THE ENTIRE candle, so it does not look like a wet spot! LOL BWAHAAHAA! There are already waxes designed with this in mind...http://specchem-apps.alliedsignal.com/prodcat/Pdfs/SWA/TDS/AstorliteJ300.pdfhttp://www.candlewic.com/candle-wax/PDS-CBL129.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon in KY Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 I love it when my soy pulls away from the jar. I think they are so much better looking.Seems to pull away more when the weather is cooler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanavp Posted November 3, 2005 Author Share Posted November 3, 2005 Finally someone who understands me. People sometimes think I'm joking.There are already waxes designed with this in mind...http://specchem-apps.alliedsignal.com/prodcat/Pdfs/SWA/TDS/AstorliteJ300.pdfhttp://www.candlewic.com/candle-wax/PDS-CBL129.pdfBut they are noy soy wax. I am looking for vegetable wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 There might not be enough of a market for anyone to offer it, but a soy release wax is feasible. I've seen some combinations of soy waxes that do it. Inidividually they adhere (or try to), but mix them together and the combination pulls away from the container walls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatinDucky Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Then you can have Rock, Rattle and Roll candles.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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