Wick Help

[lrbd]

I think I may have posted the first time to the wrong area. I am new to this forum. If I did sorry for the double post

I recently had to switch jars to my new 4 inch libbey Lucida jar.I am having such trouble getting a good wick for this jar. I hate double wicking so I have tried just about everything else along with double wicking. I have tried 1-HTP1312 , 1-RRD 55, 1-RRD65 , 2x 60-44-18C, 2x HTP 126, 2x HTP 105, 2 xLX16 and 2xRRD 37 . I am at my wits end. I use a 100% soy(Plain 415) wax with approx. 1.50 FO . This has worked for me with my 3.75 inch jars which I can no longer get.Here are my results.

RRD55 mushroom quickly

RRD65 Mushroom very quickly

HTP 1312 not a large enough melt pool after 4 hours

2x 60-44-18C Mushroom and burn very quickly

2xHTP 126 Burns very quickly and gets hot

2xHTP 105 is what I had settled on for the spring and summer . Feed back is after a couple of burn the wicks are drowning out

2 x RRD 37 or 2x LX16 I can see that the same might be happening as the HTP 105

HELP ! with the fall quickly approaching I am freaking out.

Do you have any suggestions? I thought the RRD would be the answer to my prayers. Tell me about the CDN Series or anything else you might suggest. Thank you for you help

Laura

[Stella1952]

I'll say it again: I like CDNs for veggie waxes. The wick type and treatment seems to help with the higher viscosity & acidity of soy wax.

Next to those, I like CDs. CSNs (CS's brand designed for them by Wedo) are similar, as are LXs.

A 4" container is difficult to satisfactorily single-wick with ANY wick type, but I don't like double wicking either! Try a CDN 20-24, depending on wax type.

2xHTP 105 is what I had settled on for the spring and summer . Feed back is after a couple of burn the wicks are drowning out

This is an issue you should have uncovered during testing. You must test all the way to the end! Repeatedly and with different FOs.

[lrbd]

thanks Stella so sorry I posted twice . I will get the hang of it

[lrbd]

I have a full time job a do some pc work from home along with this. I have been doing this for 3 years. This new jar is killing me. Do you have a system to share on how you set up testing. I can't seem to get to all my scents and jars tested without getting overwhelmed. Making up a batch of everything and wicking with so many differntent wicks I get so confused. You are right though shame on me

[rebeccajo99]

I felt the same way at first. I then took all my jars, FO, ideas and put them aside. I then chose 1 jar and 1 FO and worked on that. When I was done, did another FO. I have decided at this time to wait to pull out any new jars/idea until I have at least 10 scents sucessfully wicked in my current jar.

Don't think you have to have all your scents wicked for that jar before you can do anything with that jar (sell or give away, whatever you choose). Any of the big candle companies that I looked at don't have all thier scents in all thier different types of jars. That has helped me put things in perspective and not get totally overwhelmed.

[lrbd]

OMG you are wonderful . This is my first time on the forum and you are quick.sorry if you posted this before and i made you repeat yourself. May I ask a couple of more questions. If the 20 or 22 don't work and I have to double which CDN would you suggest? Do they muschroom Thanks so much

[lrbd]

Thank you . I had it all good until i couldn't get my jars anymore . Always something right?

[rebeccajo99]

I don't work with CDN wicks, so can't help you with that. I use the CD wicks (which I think are simular, but not 100% sure on that). So hopefully somebody who uses CDN wicks can help you on that. I would assume that they will still mushroom since that is caused by an incomplete burn. I don't worry about little mushrooms, I just hate the big ones that look like snot balls at the end of your wick. Just test them out and see what you think.

My best guess... maybe 2 10's or 8's. I'm taking a shot in the dark here since I have not tried double wicking yet.

[Stella1952]

Getting organized about testing IS a must! As previously mentioned, each container must be tested first for wicking info. Then go on to test each fragrance in each container. Chances are, once you have your container wicking down, it will not vary much between different FOs. Some may need one step higher or lower, but you have a great place to start.

I use an index card system for testing. Each container has a card with the specs on it - where I got it, when, its cost, its inside & outside dimensions, the basic wick size that works in it for both soy & palm wax (I make both), how much wax I pour in it, the empty & full weight of the container, etc. I also made a form for index cards for testing that has blanks for all the various aspects of testing & observations - the container, & wick type/size, the wax & FO (include the supplier, date of purchase and amount used in the wax formula), when the test period began and ended; flame height, melt pool diameter & depth, RoC (rate of consumption, determined by weighing the container before and after the testing period to see how much wax was consumed).

When I complete the test, I file the testing card with the container card. This becomes a very good resource tool as sometimes I can't remember what wick I used with which container & FO... HTH

If the 20 or 22 don't work and I have to double which CDN would you suggest? Do they muschroom Thanks so much

I do not know what size to suggest because I do not double-wick. ANY wick will mushroom. The 'shrooms ae caused by incomplete combustion which can occur for various reasons.

[lrbd]

you guys are really amazing. I can't tell you how nice it is to talk to people and get advice. Stella I am going to try the 20 and 24 CDN but if i am forced to double wick can you tell me where to start with the CDN what do you use? Thanks again

[lrbd]

Hi Stella, I have been doing alot of reading today . Going through your posts. from what i read and what you wrote to me I see you really don't double wick. Can I ask what size jars you use

[Stella1952]

I use several sizes and styles. For soy containers, I use 8 oz. wide mouth mason jars, the little 4 oz. canning jars and hex jars in a couple of sizes. For palm wax containers, I use hex jars. Occasionally, I make 16 oz. widemouth canning jars. I used status jars for a while, but didn't like the lids & tendency for the jars to break if the lids were carelessly replaced.

I have an embarrassingly large collection of personal containers which I pour for my own evil purposes. I have a big 4" container and a number of others in smaller sizes and styles. I'm not a big fan of apothecary style jars, so I don't pour those. I generally don't use expensive jars which simply drive up the retail cost of candles. I'd rather use less expensive containers and sell a buttload of them than have containers (or real large ones) that look beautiful but sit on the shelf because of the price. I do plan to have a line of upscale products and won't mind spending a little more on those, but "bread & butter" is where I'm at at the moment.

I think that straight-sided containers which are no taller than they are wide are the easiest to wick.

[lrbd]

I just ordered the CDN 20 and 22. It would be great if I didn't have to double wick.... I know about the mushrooming I just freaking hate it. Weird is that I can double wick same wick one will mushroom and the other wont with the HTP . Makes ya crazy

[RichardLOZ]

Hi there, we use CDN wicks in 4" Apothecary jars. I know lots of people don't like these jars as there are diabolical to single wick, but just like Stella I hate to double wick and will avoid doing that at all costs.

For pretty much all of our fragrances we use CDN 22 & CDN 24 wicks. Yes we do have some fragrances that mushroom and some that dont. We also use a blend of 464 SOy with a non crystalizing container palm which I find gives a nicer burn and a nice clean jar at the end.

The only fragrance I have had major trouble with so far has been for some strange reason Frangipani which I could just not get working with a single wick in the 4" Apothecary jar, so rather than double wick I just changed to a 3" square jar which still holds 10 oz. Solved the problem and the customers are totally happy with the different jar.

As everyone says, testing and more testing is generally the answer. Everyone has their own system of recording data from testing. I use an excel spreadsheet to record information from each burn. I also have a workd document that I print out with the same information on it. When I am testing, after each burn I write comments, weights etc on the printed version of the work doc, and then transfer that information into excel. In excel I have formula's which calculate wax consumption, approximate burn times etc, and then some of this information is automatically graphed so that I can see at a glance just how my candle is performing. I generally know how many grams of wax per hour I need to be consuming to give me a good result, and this will change depending on jar size.

Once the testing is complete I then go ahead and record the information in another spreadsheet such as wick size, burn time etc for future reference. If not successful, then back to the testing again, using a different wick size based on comments made during the original burn.

My wife thinks I am quite anal in doing this but when you have to pour something that you maybe havent done for a while it makes it so much easier, just having to refer to a single spreadsheet to remember which wick size goes with which jar and which FO.

Cheers

Richard

[lrbd]

I don't have anywhere to purchase containers other then online so the cost is crazy with shipping. my wax is just nuts with shipping. I have only found one place for containers. I use the wide mouth mason and the jelly jar. Those I can can get anywhere. I had to add a prettier jar and was using the 16 oz melting pot until I could not get them anymore. The Lucida was the one the store told me was comparable. It is pretty but what a pain in the butt. The size difference is minimal so i never imagined this trouble. Iwould love to switch jars .

[lrbd]

My wife thinks I am quite anal in doing this but when you have to pour something that you maybe havent done for a while it makes it so much easier, just having to refer to a single spreadsheet to remember which wick size goes with which jar and which FO.

Cheers

Richard

My husband thinks i am nuts so I know what you mean. I cannot order the CDN 24 I can't find them .

[lrbd]

When you are testing how long do you let the candle cure before you test. thanks

[rebeccajo99]

I wait 1 week before i light them for the first time. I have one curing right now that every day I walk by and sniff it. THe CT is AMAZING. I cannot wait to light it.(but have to wait til Thursday) I am praying that the HT is just as good or better than the CT.

[deb426]

When you are testing how long do you let the candle cure before you test. thanks

Depends on what I'm testing for. If I am just testing the wick, I don't worry so much about cure time. I usually will burn it after 24 hours. If I am testing for hot throw, I wait a week since I use C-3 and it takes a while.

[Stella1952]

I agree that it depends on what's I'm testing... I usually don't light soy candles for any reason before 48 hours simply to allow the wax's crystal structure to harden a little after pouring. For palm wax, I wait a week. For scent throw, I wait a week.

I also try to schedule my testing during a reasonable weather period. IE., if it's hot as hell, humidity of a gazillion%, etc. I wait until the weather has moderated. Likewise, if the weather is unusually cold & humid, I wait. I virtually NEVER have to wait because it's too dry here!

[lrbd]

This is my 3rd time trying to post this message , i hope it doesn't duplicate... crazy day around here today.. anyway here is goes. i received my CDN wicks and have started to test. I wicked a 24 16 and 10 oz 4 inch jar. I wanted to add a photo but I have yet to figure that out. That in itself is scarey since in real life i am a computer tech. please wish me luck and thanks for all your help....

[lrbd]

this is after 2 hours.... I am keeping my fingers crossed:cheesy2:

[Stella1952]

Lemme see if I understand... the inside diameter of the containers is 4" - some are taller than others. What size wick did you use? Are you using the 415 you referred to earlier? How much FO? Any additives?

If I am understanding correctly and this is your first test burn period and only 2 hours (of a 4 hour test period) had elapsed when you took the photo, I think the containers look overwicked. By the time the candles burn down to the middle and below, I am afraid the container will be too hot.

You received the CDNs today, poured candles and are already burning them? I sure would have waited at least 48 hours after pouring to test...

Another observation... if all three containers have the same diameter, you COULD test only the shortest one, get the wicking on THAT dialed in, THEN test the others with that same wick to see if it works as well in the deeper containers. Might save some time & nerve tissue...

Keep us updated - looks interesting.

[lrbd]

Lemme see if I understand... the inside diameter of the containers is 4" - some are taller than others. What size wick did you use? Are you using the 415 you referred to earlier? How much FO? Any additives?

Yes they are all the same diameter and each is taller than the other. Yes I am using GB415 no additives. I used the CDN 22 with 1.50 FO to a ild of soy

If I am understanding correctly and this is your first test burn period and only 2 hours (of a 4 hour test period) had elapsed when you took the photo, I think the containers look overwicked. By the time the candles burn down to the middle and below, I am afraid the container will be too hot.

Yes that photo was two hours I have now attached the photo of after 4 hours

You received the CDNs today, poured candles and are already burning them? I sure would have waited at least 48 hours after pouring to test...

Not sure if you will approve but this test was done on candles that I made without a wick. I took the tabs off and drilled a hole and stuck the wick in . Melted it to adhere to the wick , cooled it and then burned . The candles where made last week . I do know that when I get it right I have to test with the wick attached. Just trying to get a starting point.

Another observation... if all three containers have the same diameter, you COULD test only the shortest one, get the wicking on THAT dialed in, THEN test the others with that same wick to see if it works as well in the deeper containers. Might save some time & nerve tissue...

I would have thought so too. but look at my photo and the 16 oz doesn't look like it burned as well as the 10 oz . Those two are the same scent and formula. the largest jar is not the same scent. So I can't compare.

Keep us updated - looks interesting.

Thank you so much for your shared interest

[lrbd]

oops

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