What is acceptable to expect out of a customer?

[Glaize Creek]

I have recently ran into a couple people that I sold candles to that have scared me. One had a jar shatter on them the other complained that it burned too quickly. When I asked for the details, both were the same...they lit it and let it burn all day. I tested numerous times before putting these candles up for sale. I always watch my candles and maintain a good wick height while testing. Maybe I'm not idiot-proofing enough or I just assume that the candle burning instruction sheet I give to them will be read. But either way, I dont want to be responible for hurting someone regardless of their position in the food chain. Should I test my candles under the same circumstances before deciding they are good enough to sell...in other words, light 'em and let 'em do what ever? Or should I continue to maintain the wicks like we are supposed to. What wicks have the best "self trimming" characteristics?

Quick over view...I currently use C3 straight up, 1zo FO to 1# wax, liquid dye. The recent issue was with 16oz Masons with single Eco-10 wicks.

Any help from you veterans out there will be much appreciated.

[GourmetSoy]

Well, you can't hold everyones hand and make sure they burn your candles right:) Sounds like your wick is right for the jar so you shouldn't have a problem there. This is why it's important to have insurance. We've all had those customers that don't listen to anything you tell them! Ones that will tell you they leave a candle burning when they leave the house because they like to smell it when they come home or leave one burning overnight fot the same reason. You can tell them and tell them not to do it but they will anyhow. I'll usually let mine burn longer (powerburn) when testing than I tell my customers just to make myself feel better. It can be frustrating can't it?

[GourmetSoy]

about the self trimming wicks....CD's are good.

[kandleindulgence]

I agree with the above post. You are using an appropriate wick size for the container. I have heard of incidences where the glass shatters simply because the customer has allowed the candle to burn far longer past the 4 hour period. The glass can get very hot and may crack over time of burning it for extend periods of time (somewhat rare).

I have been making and selling candles for 13 years and I have never had a customer say a container shatter when using soy wax. I will tell you that customer do not often read the warning labels provided which prompted me to create a postcard with the burning instructions.

Don't get frustrated...customers will always find a reason to say something about your product. It's the nature of the business. Most of my customers were accustomed to burning traditional paraffin candles and kept comparing the soy to paraffin. And there was one complaint after another.

Jameel :smiley2:

[NewOrleansLady]

I always do power burns...just because I know they will. I always have a candle burning in my shop so I can show them how it's supposed to look (wick height...melt pool etc). I also put in instructions (mine is 8x11 sheet...wouldn't fit on postcard size...with the last one saying "Candles are like children (and some grown men)...neither should be left unattended under any circumstance!!!!

And you can't hold their hands. I've said before the woman that was quite educated caught her pillow on fire by having the pillow case too close. Now you would think a woman with a collage degree, professional type job and raised 3 kids would have enough common sense....but obviously not!

Be prepared for "It doesn't smell at all" only to find out they are burning the candle in a room with an open window! I've had every complaint and every one of them had an explanation of the customer doing something wrong. Once they know better they appreciate the verbal instructions and keep coming back for more since they find out how a really good candle smells when it's properly burnt.

It's just really hard not to just bitch slap some of them!!!!

[Stella1952]

Should I test my candles under the same circumstances before deciding they are good enough to sell...in other words, light 'em and let 'em do what ever?

IMHO, heck yes! I do careful testing first - trim wicks, burn for prescribed times all the way to the end, etc. Once I have a prototype that meets my standards, I conduct at least one powerburn test on every container & candle type I sell - light it & just let 'er burn - all the way to the end to see if it becomes too hot, smokes, soots, wick becomes a torch, catches on fire, shatters the glass, wick loses its seal or wanders, smells like a fuel tank farm on fire, etc. Because my personal rule is to use the smallest size wick I can to achieve a reasonable burn & HT, I seldom have to wick down after the powerburn test, but it does happen sometimes, so I check.

I tested numerous times before putting these candles up for sale. I always watch my candles and maintain a good wick height while testing. Maybe I'm not idiot-proofing enough

I do my best to idiot-proof my candles, but there will always be some people who choose to behave like idiots... I have no control over that other than to refuse to sell them any more candles!

I just assume that the candle burning instruction sheet I give to them will be read.

While I bend over backwards to inform customers how to burn my candles to get the longest, safest, best results from them, I have absolutely zero faith that ANYONE follows those instructions! So much about burning our products is basic, common sense...but common sense is not employed by so many people in their private lives...

But either way, I dont want to be responible for hurting someone regardless of their position in the food chain.

You can only do so much toward consumer protection, short of going to a customers house and burning the dang candle FOR them!*faint* At some point (ie, after they purchase something), all consumers are responsible for their own actions and consequences.

Do the best that you can, perform due diligence, get product liability insurance, then sell your candles in the sure knowledge that there are always gonna be some people who will screw ANYTHING up and then try to blame others for their own personal idiocy. Try to avoid them! Hopefully, the vast majority of your customers will have sense enough to burn candles safely.

[Meridith]

You can't control what a customer will do with your candle. Even if an accident occurs due their negligence, you can still be sued. Hence the importance of having insurance. Operating a business without the proper insurance is irresponsible and opening yourself up to possibly losing everything in a lawsuit. All you can do is to thoroughly test your candles to ensure the safest burning candle you can, use proper warning lables and have insurance. Beyond that, there is not much else you can do when it comes to how a customer burns your candle.

[topofmurrayhill]

I would listen to kandleindulgence and include the burning instructions in another form besides the label at the bottom of the candle.

If you box the candles, it's perfect to include a card with the burning instructions. You could have a big title that says "For Best Results and Safe Burning" or whatever you think might get their attention. For people who like to burn for very long sessions, it should include language along the lines of, "If flame gets too large or smokes, extinguish candle and allow to cool, then trim the wick before relighting."

Self trimming wicks are a tricky issue with wide soy containers. You usually would be using a very large wick size, which wouldn't really trim to a reasonable length by itself. It's also likely that the tip of the wick gets clogged up with gunk, which can impair any self-trimming effect.

Making a largish candle that automatically burns well in very long sessions, or at least trims to a good length upon lighting, takes a lot of design work. The most feasible approach is double wicking it.

Edited November 20, 2009 by topofmurrayhill

[chuck_35550]

I would wonder about the jars. Regular canning jars should be able to take just about anything, unless they are not top quality or have a defect. Look for any abnormalities with the glass. Make sure and cut your wicks short enough for that first lighting. Customers aren't going to trim back the wick before lighting that first time and that can make a big difference. Personally, I don't care for the eco wicks. They just get kind of balled up and nasty toward the end of the candle (or at least that has been my experience). I think just about everybody has switched to cdn wicks or lx wicks. If that combination is consuming fuel too fast and creating too much heat; then you have to re-think your formula. HTH.

Steve

Edited November 20, 2009 by chuck_35550

[WillowBoo]

I agree with Chuck. The canning jars are built to take temperature abuse. Must have been a defect that you didn't catch. I have found some that had cracks inside that could be seen but not felt.

[Meridith]

Regardless of how many or where you place a warning label or even if an accident were to happen as a result of a defective container (or even the customer's negligence) that won't necessarily stop someone from filing a lawsuit against you. You could have a neon flashing sign that comes out of the candle with burning instructions and you can still get sued. While the complainant more than likely would not prevail because they will have the burden to prove that a defect in your product caused the accident, you will still be required to defend yourself/company in court which means $$$$ you will need spend in the course of that defense. Besides the proper testing and burning instructions, the key is to also have insurance. We live in a very litigious society so its best to take that extra precaution and get that insurance.

[Stella1952]

Even canning jars can do strange things... I have had them *pop* and crack around the bottom right out of the case for no obvious reason... People who do hot & warm glass have polarizing devices to check glass for invisible internal stresses caused by different coefficients of expansion in the same project or glass that was not properly annealed to relieve the stress in the glass from melting. The biggest problem I have had with non-US manufactured glass is that the annealing isn't done right (or at all!) and the glass pops unexpectedly - sometimes without any *normal* stress being perpetrated upon it. Just because it's clear with no chips or dings doesn't mean that the internal structure of the glass will withstand repeated heating up & cooling down.

Best advice is to do the best you can by using quality materials & a carefully tested product and buy liability insurance to CYA.

[Stella1952]

Jameel, what is that link in your signature line? Is that an eBook you authored and are selling?

[melpitt]

I have recently ran into a couple people that I sold candles to that have scared me. One had a jar shatter on them the other complained that it burned too quickly. When I asked for the details, both were the same...they lit it and let it burn all day.

This may be the problem.. Staying lit all day..As stated before 4 hrs. for a burn is enough..Any longer and the jar will get hot.