Does this sound like a good recipe?

[lsbennis]

Im trying to find a good luxury recipe with some basic oils, does this one sound ok?

Crisco

Coconut 76

Palm Kernal

Castor

Olive

Shea

When I put it in the soap calc, this is what it said...

Hardness...38%

Cleansing...20%

Conditioning...56%

Bubbly...31%

Creamy...29%

Thanks :smiley2:

[Scented]

It must have a lot of olive to be that low as far as a hardness indication, but while olive tends to put up those kind of numbers, it also will eventually make a good, hard bar. Just depends on what % of olive you're using or the recipe calls for in regards to how long it should sit.

[lsbennis]

Actually the recipe has very little Olive oil, so will that make it a soft mushy bar? Here are the numbers for a l lb batch...

Crisco (old)... 6.4oz

Coconut 76... 2.5oz

PKO... 2.4oz

Castor... 1.9oz

Olive...1.6oz

Shea...1.2

Water...6oz

Lye...2.24oz

I'm going to make a small HP batch today and see how it is.

[Scented]

So how'd it go? I can't comment in regards to HP, but in CP I coulda.

[chuck_35550]

I just don't think this is going to be too luxurious. I would expect DOS and for the bar to be harsh. The recipe is really unbalanced IMHO especially using 40% Crisco. Your linoleic is through the roof while your oleic is low and then using coconut and pko to offset provides the harshness. What do you think about this one?

Crisco 10%

Coconut 20%

PKO 5%

Castor 10%

Shea Butter 30%

Olive Oil 25%

Hardness 40

Cleansing 16

Condition 56

Bubbly 25

Creamy 32

Iodine 60

INS 143

The shea makes it expensive but it and the olive would make for nice effect on the skin.

I'm like Scented in that I don't HP only CP. HTH

Steve

[lsbennis]

@ Scented...I think it went ok, I made two batches, one was Witches Brew and the other was Pumpkin Apple Butter. I put vanilla stabilizer in the Witches Brew so it wouldn't turn brown. I will try and take some pictures of them tonight.

They are both curing right now but I did try a sample of each one...

Witches Brew...smells great, very bubbly and creamy but for some reason it feels a little sticky to me when I wet it, maybe its the Vanilla Stabilizer? IDK, I never used it before. It is curing right now so I'm hoping it will harden up a bit.

Pumpkin Apple Butter...smells great, very bubbly and creamy, I do not notice a stickyness to it when it gets wet. Its also a little soft right now, hoping a good cure will take care of that.

I'm still trying different recipes until I hit on one I like the most, its so confusing tho, cause I read so many different things. I read that Crisco makes a crappy soap but I see it in alot of recipes. :rolleyes2

Edited August 30, 2010 by lsbennis

[lsbennis]

@Chuck...thanks for the reply, what is DOS? I'm so new at this that I'm just hoping I stumble upon something that I like. Even tho I'm reading up on it I'm still unsure as to what would make a great bar of soap. But your recipe sounds nice, I love shea in soap, I will give it a try and let you know how it goes.

[LuminousBoutique]

Chuck have you noticed DOS with high soybean amounts? I know canola can cause it..

Is- DOS is deadly orange spots.. its just an aesthetic issue really, theres nothing "wrong" with the soap but I wouldnt sell it still... high amounts of canola seems to cause it in some cases however I did a test batch with 50% canola, and I didnt get DOS. So, I dont believe its caused simply by the kind of oil... that or something has to go just right (or wrong, lol, to cause it)

I had a batch with 10% do it though... and it was only 2 bars out of a batch of 20. Totally odd... but I realized those two bars were stored in the bathroom, and the spots developed a month after they were in there.... so honestly, I think the humidity could have caused it.

Theories I've heard are .... rancid oils, high canola or sunflower (rice bran too maybe?), using non distilled water(maybe mineral content in water?), and keeping your superfat to under 5%, and cure out of sunlight can help prevent it.

Honestly, I cant give a 100% answer on this... I didnt think Soybean caused DOS.... I could totally be wrong. but thats all the stuff I've read. For me, they only showed up that ONE time and I'd used that old recipe (I dont use canola anymore, or if I do, less than 5%) about 10 times and it was the only batch, and only those two bars.. the only difference was they were in filtered light, where the others were cured in the shade/dark, and they were in a humid bathroom. So.. mystery but I think thats what caused them for me.

The thing is, with your recipe, its just ALOT of soybean oil.. which doesnt really lend anything to the soap. Its cheap and it makes soap.. but it doesnt make it any more conditioning or any more creamy or any more bubbly, you know?

[chuck_35550]

Dreaded Orange Spots. The soap begins to turn rancid because of the high linoleic fatty acid. There are some additives that help to slow or prevent the proceess but it is just better to not go over 60 on the iodine. The linoleic on my recipe was still 11 and most folks try to stay around 5 or 6 and 160 is supposed to be the perfect INS number. Shea is so expensive to use in those amounts but I have made soap that was really nice and silky for my skin. The castor may be a little high for most soapers tastes or for some not at all. Try the meat shortening and see how that works for you or a little lard or both. Beef tallow is great. But if that soap cleanses and moisturizes without getting orange spots and smelling rancid the use it.

HTH.

Steve

[lsbennis]

Oh boy! I guess you learn as you go...lol So my thought processs is to eliminate the crisco and stick with the Olive, palm and coconut and add in some shea and castor in smaller amounts to luxe it up a little. I was trying to create more bubbles, another recipe I tried had very little bubbles. I also tried adding a tsp of sugar to the mix and it did seem to help with the bubbles. Steve, I'm going to try your recipe and take out the crisco and or add another oil or just increase the ones already in it.

I have tried the lard and quite honestly it grossed me out...lol :lipsrseal It just had a nasty smell that I couldn't seem to get rid of, it does smell better after it cures a little but for some reason I can still smell it. I checked my lard and it was fine so I guess its just me. It did make a nice bar of soap tho. :rolleyes2

[chuck_35550]

I use 11 oz of oils per pound with the lye and liquid making the remainder of the pound. Notice what values each ingredient contains when using calc or any other calculator and be aware of the balance of saturated and unsaturated fats. The numbers game is not the end all to good recipes but they are reasonable guide lines. Coconut is good for lather and hard soap but can be harsh if not gentled by other ingredients. Grocery store soap ingredients are just fine and produce good soaps with decent qualities. Not to mention the milk soaps which make for good soaps too. Miller Soap is as good as anything else out there for starters and then buy books that get deeper into the heart of soapmaking and beware of books that are mostly cosmetic. HTH

Steve

Edited August 30, 2010 by chuck_35550

[lsbennis]

Thanks for the info Steve, much appreciated ...I played some more with the soap calc, keeping in mind the numbers and this is what I came up with. I eliminated the crisco and cut back on the shea but did add sunflower....

Palm..18%

Coconut...27%

Olive...27%

Sunflower...9%

Shea...9%

Castor...8%

Hard...41%

Cleansing...18%

Conditioning...55%

Bubbly...26%

Creamy...29%

Iodine...61

INS...150

would this be comparable to the recipe you posted? The cleansing is higher I will continue to play with the soap calc to see what I can come up with.

[lsbennis]

Ok, I'm tired of playing with the soap calc for today...I tried this recipe based on some comments I read in this section of CT....

Palm 40%

Coconut 25%

Olive 30%

Shea 2.5%

Castor2.5%

Hard...46

Cleansing...17

Conditioning...51

Bubbly...19

Creamy...31

Iodine...53

INS...159

So now it would appear that the bubbly factor has dropped down, I need to work on that. :tiptoe:

[lsbennis]

Ok...this is the final one, I promise...lol I worked on it a little more this morning and think I got a decent recipe.....

Palm...31%

Olive...27%

Coconut...27%

Shae...9%

Castor...6%

Hard...45

Cleansing...18

Conditioning...51

Bubbly...24

Creamy...33

Iodine...53

INS...159

Steve...I tried to get the INS to 160 but this was the best I could do and the linoleic is at 8

I will give it a try this weekend, hope it turns out ok! Thanks :smiley2:

[chuck_35550]

Those look like good recipes. You never know until you try. Don't worry about 160 INS. The numbers are guidelines for certain types of results. Salt bars, shampoo bars, gardners soap ect are all going to have strange or even bad looking numbers. There are some soapers who refuse to use more than 20% coconut or have a palmitic past a certain number and those who use 30% without a problem. The actual harshness indicated may not occur but little by little you learn about soft and hard oils and their properties. Someone like Top or Scented know these things backwards and fowards. I am not that high up on the food chain so take what I say with a grain of salt. HTH

Steve