My First CP batch pic. Is this normal?

[lovemylabs]

We poured our CP Lavender Soap last Wednesday and on Thursday evening cut into slices. I didn't get the color of lavender/purple I wanted, but I guess I'm not totally disappointed either. I'm just really trying to get the process down. Anyway, in the pic, can you see the little white streaks? Is that normal? Or, did we do something wrong?

[chuck_35550]

If its on the outside, then its probably ash but if its on the inside it might be a partial gel? Need an expert here like Scented or Top.

[Kitn]

Your soap looks fabulous, it is likely the color wasn't totally mixed in, it looks very pretty to me, sometimes palm oil will make white streaks and stripes.

[Scented]

Do you have palm in there? If not, what other oils are in it?

Edited September 12, 2010 by Scented

[lovemylabs]

Thanks for your help guys. No Palm Oil...Here is the recipe we used. Do you see something in this recipe that would cause them? Should I have another oil in there? As I look at the soap, it actually looks pretty cool. But just want to make sure everything is ok.

Lye 205 gm

Distilled Water 532 ml

Olive Oil 893 gm

Coconut Oil 447 gm

Castor Oil 45 ml

Lavender EO 1.3 oz

[Scented]

One thing it could be is that the color did not mix well all the way through.

I don't see anything else that could cause it unless it's just the coconut, but that doesn't make a lot of sense really. I'm going to vote for the color not being entirely mixed into the batch and it just got layered into the mold like that. I have had it happen when I've tried to color an entire batch and not get the entire thing blended together well enough.

Edited September 13, 2010 by Scented

[lovemylabs]

Oh ok...well...if it's the dye, then I can handle that one. I thought we did something wrong with our recipe. So, in your experience(s) what do you guys think of this recipe? Is it a good one? Too basic? Not enough oils? What would you do, if anything, to improve this recipe? We're trying to take our time and really understand the different characteristics of the oils and learn what can be substituted if we're low on something else. We'll be doing another batch or two within the next couple of days...(I think this will be addictive)

[Scented]

Cut off a sliver and use it. See what you think. You need to build your bars around what you like and then develop from there. I imagine it has a creamy lather with olive being the most oil in there. You might find that it is a little drying with the amount of coconut you've used, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

I'd take a sliver and use it, come back to it in a week and use it again and in another week try it again so you can get a feel for what it's like as it cures.

I also imagine that early uses the soap will feel soft, because olive is soft in the early stages and gradually hardens.

Did you add the castor because you had it or because you were hoping for it to bubble a little more?

[topofmurrayhill]

I'd agree it's maybe some variation in how the batter got dyed, but I don't really know. Your photo actually brings up another matter that has been bugging me: what causes those teeny little pinhole bubbles? Sometimes I get them and sometimes not and I haven't been able to pin it down.

As for your recipe and how to improve it...

About a third of the recipe (or less) of coconut oil for bubbles--as you have it--is common and fine. The oil you're missing is palm, which is a harder version of olive oil. Using only olive oil for the balance of the recipe can make the soap softer and more slimy in the shower than it needs to be. Incorporating some palm oil helps it work better and last longer.

[Scented]

Pinhole bubbles = air IMO. I get them from too much stick blender or not being more careful with the SB, but I get them also from too much stirring, lifting spatula out of batter etc. They appear more with the stick blender. However, I also use a whisk attachment on my hand blender and that doesn't help to cut back on incorporating air either, but it's the only thing that gets my color mixed quickly, especially when I need it to come together quickly.

[topofmurrayhill]

I considered that but am not totally convinced. I never even use a stick blender. Recently I tried out new recipe variations with four little test batches, each one the same size and made the same way with the same equipment. The resulting soaps had all different amounts of micro-bubbles ranging from zero to a lot. The mixing procedure was so consistent from one to the other that it's hard to imagine such a big difference in how much air got incorporated into the batter.

I've seen this kind of unpredictability before, so I don't feel I can rule out the possibility that the bubbles form in the mold. In fact, I wasn't very careful to incubate each batch in exactly the same way, so maybe temperature could be a factor. There was also a significant differences in the ingredients. The whole thing is still a mystery to me.

[lovemylabs]

OK....Great idea. I will cut off a sliver and use it and then do so again each week to see the progression. I'll add palm for our next batch. And yes, we added the castor for bubbles. And I personally do not like slimy soap. Yuck...don't know too many people that do. As for the tiny holes and air being the cause. That could very well be the issue. My DH was "at the wheel" and probably used the stick blender like a stinkin jack hammer!

[Starr]

Did you use Titanium Dioxide to help whiten your soap prior to coloring it?

I know that before I started mixing my Titanium into some glycerin to help break it down, I would get little white streaks where it didn't incorporate completely.

[lovemylabs]

No we sure didn't. Never even crossed my mine. So, if we would have added this to the batch, it would have whitened the batch so when the dye was put in, we would have achieved the lavender/purple color we wanted instead of the grayish? That would make sense since the natural color of the batch was a tanish color. I'll check the Chemistry Store to see if they carry it. We're close to them and can get it tomorrow. I'll do some research on it to see what the ratio is for a 3 pound batch while I'm at it. Thank you so much for your advice and help.

Edited September 13, 2010 by lovemylabs

[Scented]

You probably would have achieved light gray.

[lovemylabs]

The end result would be light gray, even after adding the TD? Well heck, we almost have that now. (Like in our pic Scented?...or would it be even a lighter gray?) So is TD only used if we want "vivid, colorful" soaps or in every batch? I think for the most part we are going to strive for earthy looking soaps to start out. So, do alot of soapers use it or is this a "no brainer" that everyone uses it and I'm just now catching on? .

[Scented]

TD is used to try to subside the browns in soap or to lessen the intensity of the brown. Take a look at pink sugar soaps. My batch that had the FO in it went from a wonderful bananaish yellow to cow patty brown basically. It even lathers a little bit on the brown side because it's so dark. Worse. I put TD in the batch and it didn't subside the amount of darkness in the slightest (IMO)

Let's see if some of this helps you.

Purple is a combination of blue and red basically. If you add TD, it's going to affect the colors and it isn't going to produce what you want. What I see in your soap is more of a blue. That could be my monitor though. I've had TD change reds to magenta, blues to something that really isn't blue and sometimes to shades of greens, even more of a forest greenish hue to it maybe. A lot will depend on what's in the color's make up and what's in your recipe will have some affect on the outcome.

I'm just going to opt for a light gray, because your color isn't dark enough, but it wouldn't be the color of what you've got. It would be lighter and likely not resemble any purple is my guess. Coloring can be a cruel sacrifice sometimes, but changes can be avoidable. For instance, you could pull off soap, mix with color and then add your fragrance to a batch. Swirl in your color and if the swirls aren't too stringy (thin swirls) then the color might survive through the gel and use of the TD. I hope that makes sense. Sometimes soaps will darken and swallow the color is what I'm getting at, so a color sometimes needs to be twice the intensity to have a chance at survival.

Another culprit in all of this is going to be the nature of the beast (FO). For instance, you can soap say Day-Star's Hunter Moon. I get a purple/light mauvy color with it (that I consider far from pretty or even handsome since it's more a manly scent to me), but I believe that is how it mellowed out. It went through some morphing from mix to pour to gel to cut.

I soaped Southern Soaper's Egyptian Musk I believe it was, knowing it was going to brown somewhat so I added TD. I went with a tomato reddish color and got basically hot pink or magenta (whichever you want to call it.)

There are colors that are naturally unstable in CP. False Blue comes to mind from Select Shades. It's a gorgeous blue that I'd love to get in soap, but it's unstable and doesn't keep it's color through gel, changing to a horrible grayish purple, but in the end it is purple (depending on how much you use.) It has gone grayish and stayed that way on me before.

Keep lots of notes. That's the best I can tell you. If you really want to see what TD does, regardless of the FO you use, make two batches. In one, add TD and in the other don't. Use the same colors in both instances and you'll see how TD affects the outcome. Make sure both batches have the same FO ... maybe even make four batches, two using a known fragrance that browns and you can see what happens (except that you might lose your color in the batch without TD.)

[lovemylabs]

Yeah Scented...that all makes perfect sense. I did do a cut and paste of your comment to keep with my notes and be able to refer back to. Anyway, it's basically a continual learning process of "trial and error" then. I do have some vanilla white (I think it's called) from NG coming tomorrow. I'm going to do some research on this as well. I know it's new, but I will try this also. Doing up some batches for the testing is a great idea. I think I'll do one with the TD, one without and one with the VW, using the same fo and same color/dye. Thanks Scented....I always appreciate your posts throughout the board. Sooooo helpful.

[Scented]

Unfortunately it's trial and error because batches vary (which they should as we don't need to be a cloned society out there selling the same thing, using the same thing and thinking we're all the same thing.) Keep good notes and you'll have an idea what happens ... but prepare yourself ... you change your recipe and that could alter the coloring just the slightest or the greatest bit lol. And then there are tons of different kinds of colorants out there. I would encourage you, while you are going through testing stages, to start sampling them and seeing what you like, what doesn't take forever to get to you and what you find to be more comfortable and easy to use. I have loaded myself up with micas, oxides, ultramarines, Select Shades and a few other shades of this or that in the pursuit of something that equates to a headache (the perfect red color lol).

I wish you the best of luck on your pursuits and post on your results. If you go looking for TD ... I personally like the kind that is both soluable in oil and water. A few places carry that. Unfortunately Southern Soapers was one of them but they're on their way OOB. Southern Garden, I believe, also has it.